Sorry for late reply, Ive been away from the internet for a couple of days. I will try to upload some photos. The area is a very small kitchen and hallway, leading through to my living room and onto the new extension. I did ask if we could get a rep from karndean out to look at it when he said he blamed the product but he didn't want to do this as he said they never accept responsibility anyway so its a waste of time. I phoned karndean but they wouldn't send anyone out to look at it as they said he is their customer not me, so it has to be him that requests a visit. I haven't used the cleaning product on the floor but even if the scratches were less noticeable I can't live with the peaks and overlapping joins. They don't massively overlap but its enough that you can see and feel them. I believe he's been a recommended karndean fitter for a very long time. I wonder if he left the 2 young lads that work for him here to do it whilst he went to another job, I know he's very busy, so when I went to work its possible he left too. I don't think the adhesive he used was the karndean one. He said he was using the best one possible, a pressure sensitive one that never actually 'goes off'? I am really quite worried about the condition of the subfloor when I take up the karndean :/ Laura
Forgot to say he latexed the whole floor, then there was a turquoise green paint rolled on. The screed in the extension had been down some months so everything was dried out ok. I believe he did all the prep correctly.
The green paint as you put it was probably primer. Not sure why he would do it afterwards. Supposed prime floor first before screeding.
Laura which area is the worst. Is there alot of windows and direct sunlight on that area. If it is pressure sensitive shouldn't of been used. Should of been high temperature glue so no movement.
Sorry, thinking about it, the green primer was used before the latex... Yes the bit in the extension is the worst and there are bifold doors across that so it has full sun in the afternoon. But the problems with the overlapping and peaking were there from the moment it was laid. Unfortunately I can't upload a photo as its on my phone and won't let me upload for some reason. Would you use different glues for different areas? Its open plan but its only the extension end of the livingroom that gets the direct sunlight. Thanks Laura
Thats your problem then the i think. High temperature glue should be used in that situation and not pressure sensitive. It sounds like the tiles were not acclimatised before hand and while fitting them they were expanding which would cause the peaking.
Thanks for your views and advice. I'm lifting the karndean on Monday so I'll let you know how I get on and what the sub floor is like. I'll try to sort out photos. I did want to speak to someone from Quickstep but the only phone numbers I could find were abroad. Is there a UK based number? I called a couple of Livyn stockists but I knew more about the product than they did! Laura
I had originally wanted to use the stick down Essential v4 as I thought it would be best incase I needed to replace one or 2 due to scratches in the future. But as I've had these problems with the glue maybe I should consider the click one that was mentioned to me higher in this thread. That one is 4mm thick as opposed to the 2mm stick down. Do you think the wear layer would be the same? - this is the question I was asking the livyn stockists but none of them could answer - would it be more hard wearing? I have 2 dogs btw. And would the subfloor prep be the same? Also, I have underfloor heating just in the extension area (open plan off the living room), so one area of the floor will heat up and the other half won't. What would your recommendation be between the uniclick and the stick down? sorry for so many questions! Thanks Laura
Well If your subfloor covered in ps adhesive you would probably be better off putting the click over the top of the karndean? Need to make sure there isn't a moisture problem first tho. When you take up the karndean you will have a floor covered in tacky glue which will have to be sorted. Saying that my mate just had to uplift and relay 70 m2 of lvt on the same ps adhesive as the customer didn't like the way he laid it out!
I'm a personally shocked that this fella will not request a viewing from karndean, my opinion is he knows it's fitted incorrectly and that's his get out clause. I sell both click and stick down luxury vinyl tiles, I'd stick with stick down if you have a lot of sun light as click PVC tiles can expand upto 1mm per metre in severe heat, obviously we would recommend an expansion gap of 2-3mm as a minimum but you will get a lot of movement on the floor during the hot periods of the British summer. This is frustrating me and it would disappoint me if I had retailers acting like that with their clients.
Where is the floor most affected? In the extension by any chance? << sorry just answered my question by browsing back! Your fitter hasn't used the correct adhesive and when underfloor heating is thrown in the equation then you have to make sure the correct procedure is followed (as always with any type of installation) else you'll have the issues that you have now. Your fitter needs to hold his hands up here and to be honest why should YOU have to fork out for new materials when its plain obvious that your fitter hasn't followed the guidelines! Ask yourself which would you prefer, stick down or click? Then work from there. If you prefer the stick down then go with that. Just because this install hasn't gone to plan doesn't mean this issue is going to happen again...unless your fitter balls it up again which may I add 'once bitten twice shy....' How long was the Karndean acclimatised? What was the actual name of the glue he used? What screed did he use? And please dont say the ready mix from 'wickes' Was the UFH switched off before? When was it switched back on? if the planks were peaking almost straight away the. Why the hell didn't your fitter down tools and notify you of the issue straight away? Whats happened here is your fitter has made vital mistakes yet he's remaining ignorant in the fact that this is down to him only and whether he got his lads to fit it or not, there is no passing the book. Just because he's a friend of yours doesn't mean you have to accept his excuses and yes it can be awkward between friends but does that mean you have to accept his excuses? Every fitter out there has made mistakes but the ones that own up to it are the ones that appreciate that all these different types of glues really exist for a reason. Ive known fitters to ignore this and just do what they want to do just because they have half a tub left on the van from a past job and it means they make a little more profit by saving having to buy the correct glue for the job in the first place.
Thanks for your replies. He didn't acclimatise it at all. Straight off the van and fitted. When I said I thought that was the problem he said its not as he'd been storing them in his garage which is heated so they didn't come out of a cold place into a warm place. He knows Im not convinced by this explanation but is sticking to it. The underfloor heating had never been switched on, except when the installer tested it a couple of weeks previously. You're all going to shake your heads at this..he called me to say he'd finished the floor and it all went fine and looked good. I came home from work to find the extension area lifting all over and the underfloor heating switched on! I called and said why is the UFH on and it transpires 'one of the lads must have flicked the fuse switch by mistake, turn it off now and it'll be ok'… so it was on almost full pelt as it went on factory setting. I've not turned it on again since I was too worried about it lifting again. I don't know the name of the glue or the screed, but it wasn't ready mixed. My worry is that as he thinks this is acceptable and is still blaming the product if he comes back and fits a new floor whose to say it won't happen again? Its been so stressful and I just desperately want an end to the floor saga. I almost feel like writing off the cost and putting it down to a bad experience then getting someone else to fit it. He offered to refit and pay towards the new floor product, the equivalent cost of the karndean knight tile, but obviously the QS click livyn is a lot more expensive so he wants me to make up the difference.
Laura, whereabouts on the country are you? Surely there's someone on here that is close to you and could fit your new floor without the hassle you have already had.
Thats made everything clearer. If you dont want him back I'd get your money back and some for uplift of the old floor. He's not followed protocol by the sounds of it and if one of his muppets turned the ufu on then he's responsible for their actions. None of what he's saying will stand up in court. If one of the lads on here lives near by get him to sort it for you. All of us on here are on here to share knowledge and tips. We'll all agree as floor fitters there is always something for us too learn and thats a sign of a good fitter. Let us know where you are and we'll see if we can help.
Laura, isn't that telling you something.... I love that excuse as well... "yeah the flooring has been in my garage and its heated so don't need to acclimatise" - Classic I don't know about anyone else but if I knew id have followed the guidelines and believed I did nothing wrong then 1. Id be getting Karndean in to take a look AND 2. I wouldn't be offering to fork out for a new floor until No.1 has been done! Do yourself a favour Laura and don't let this go any further. Take a 'lesson learnt' and have your new floor installed properly by someone who knows what they are doing. Your friend has got to admit liability here and yes it will hurt, no fitter wants to be labelled a s**t floor layer but with the few errors he's already admitted to he should be handing you back every penny you gave him and paying you for the karndean he wrecked - simple as that. I look it like this...If it was me (the fitter) id be wanting to make sure you are fully happy by doing my best to reassure you it was a mistake and reimbursing you for the lot and least then id like to think you wouldn't mind passing my name to your family/friends if they ever need a floor fitting obviously knowing that I was honest and just made a balls up but rectified my mistake(s) to put thinks right for you. The way this guy is going on id bet my life on it you wouldn't recommend him now to anyone. Id love to come and have a look at this floor! Where are you based?
Hello Interesting thread. I am glad I have finally found some forum where I can get some information about vinyl floors as in Poland where I live it is quite new and no opinions can be found. I can actually see this kind of floor in shoping centers, but no information from demestic users. So, I decided to go for Quick-step Lyvin Essential Patina Oak Light Grey 2mm sticked down version (w/o V-groove). I am going to use it on ca. 50 sqm area which consists of the kitchen, living/dining room, hall and small WC. The whole floor is with under floor water heating. I would appreciate if you helped me to summarize the knowledge about this kind of floor as my experience with building the house is that one need to be prepared and know a bit of everything to avoid any surprises (like LauraChimea case from this thread). So: 1. How long the stuff must be in my house before fitting it, to acclimatise? Is it ca. 4 days? 2. What level of screed moisture is allowed? 3. How long before the UFH must be switched off and when it can be switched back on? 4. What kind of glue would you recommend? UFH and big windows, so direct sun exposure is expected. 5. My fitter is going to make, so called in Poland, self-leveling additional screed (do not know English name for it) to make the surface leveled and completely flat. How long bofore sticking down the vinyl this self-leveling screed should be made? The fitter says two days is enough! Is it true? Thanks in advance for your support Mirek
